DodgeRover wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:50 am
Are the battery packs on EVs designed to be readily removable or is the car built around them?
If you watch that video you can see them simply unbolting the whole pack and it drops straight out the bottom much like a battery RC car.
The latest Teslas actually use the pack as an integral structural part, all the cells are potted together to save on weight of the overall vehicle making them virtually impossible to repair. If the thing is damaged in the slightest the whole thing will be scrap.
A lot of this appears to be that the fire fighting technology isn't as advanced as battery technology. Fuel fires have been fought for the last century and longer (I bet WW2 sped a lot up). Dealing with high energy chemical electrical storage far shorter. Especially lithium based cells.
Also there is a lot of knee jerk reactions from lack of understanding or over reactions from a few incidents.
It'll improve over time and likely very quickly. Not least there will be a lot of money to be made in solving these problems.
SiC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 2:09 pm
A lot of this appears to be that the fire fighting technology isn't as advanced as battery technology. Fuel fires have been fought for the last century and longer (I bet WW2 sped a lot up). Dealing with high energy chemical electrical storage far shorter. Especially lithium based cells.
Also there is a lot of knee jerk reactions from lack of understanding or over reactions from a few incidents.
It'll improve over time and likely very quickly. Not least there will be a lot of money to be made in solving these problems.
Fire-Isolator-Container.jpg (212.18 KiB) Viewed 429 times
I see where you are coming from but it's the logistics and physics involved. On the continent they seem to be going the way of dunking them in a skip full of water? I've seen numerous accounts of this approach. If it's such a non issue why are people inventing a solution? The batteries don't need oxygen to burn, unlike other fuels, once thermal runaway gets past a point they are very difficult to put out. Not so bad if out in the open but what about in your garage on the side of your house or in an underground car park
Talking of solution, you then have to deal with thousands of litres of water now potentially contaminated with dissolved heavy metals?
SiC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:05 am
An electric cars battery pack casing isn't fireproof either. However a storage tank for waste petrol will almost certainly be fireproof so it doesn't readily melt in a fire.
Shorting a battery either externally or internally (from physical damage) releases a huge amount of energy very quickly. This causes a cell to overheat very quickly and hence catch fire. However the amount of energy stored depends on how much charge it has. A flat (empty) lithium battery cell doesn't catch fire from a short. Remote control enthusiasts leave a bulb or such type of load connected to a battery pack to fully discharge it before disposing of the cells. This reduces the energy to almost zero.
There isn't actually that much lithium content in a cell either. Just they're made of flammable materials like plastic and many of them together releases an awful lot of energy quickly.
But then so does the fluids in a car. Brake fluid is especially volatile and burns well once going.
Scrapyard fires are nothing new. Just new, novel hazards that need to be be dealt with that are different from the ones before.
SiC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:05 am
An electric cars battery pack casing isn't fireproof either. However a storage tank for waste petrol will almost certainly be fireproof so it doesn't readily melt in a fire.
Shorting a battery either externally or internally (from physical damage) releases a huge amount of energy very quickly. This causes a cell to overheat very quickly and hence catch fire. However the amount of energy stored depends on how much charge it has. A flat (empty) lithium battery cell doesn't catch fire from a short. Remote control enthusiasts leave a bulb or such type of load connected to a battery pack to fully discharge it before disposing of the cells. This reduces the energy to almost zero.
There isn't actually that much lithium content in a cell either. Just they're made of flammable materials like plastic and many of them together releases an awful lot of energy quickly.
But then so does the fluids in a car. Brake fluid is especially volatile and burns well once going.
Scrapyard fires are nothing new. Just new, novel hazards that need to be be dealt with that are different from the ones before.
Get away from here with your voice of reason.
This site won't put up with it.
Ben
How do you safely drain down a battery pack that you can't diagnose? SiC mentioned making money from it, can he crack it?
SiC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:05 am
An electric cars battery pack casing isn't fireproof either. However a storage tank for waste petrol will almost certainly be fireproof so it doesn't readily melt in a fire.
Shorting a battery either externally or internally (from physical damage) releases a huge amount of energy very quickly. This causes a cell to overheat very quickly and hence catch fire. However the amount of energy stored depends on how much charge it has. A flat (empty) lithium battery cell doesn't catch fire from a short. Remote control enthusiasts leave a bulb or such type of load connected to a battery pack to fully discharge it before disposing of the cells. This reduces the energy to almost zero.
There isn't actually that much lithium content in a cell either. Just they're made of flammable materials like plastic and many of them together releases an awful lot of energy quickly.
But then so does the fluids in a car. Brake fluid is especially volatile and burns well once going.
Scrapyard fires are nothing new. Just new, novel hazards that need to be be dealt with that are different from the ones before.
Get away from here with your voice of reason.
This site won't put up with it.
Ben
Any novel ideas you'd like to put forward then Ben? I've been a fan of LED torches for a long time and the only pipe bomb I carry by my balls is a decent make with an expensive and well researched/designed battery. The largest jump they have made is in the LED efficiency, batteries have lagged well back.
SiC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:05 am
An electric cars battery pack casing isn't fireproof either. However a storage tank for waste petrol will almost certainly be fireproof so it doesn't readily melt in a fire.
Shorting a battery either externally or internally (from physical damage) releases a huge amount of energy very quickly. This causes a cell to overheat very quickly and hence catch fire. However the amount of energy stored depends on how much charge it has. A flat (empty) lithium battery cell doesn't catch fire from a short. Remote control enthusiasts leave a bulb or such type of load connected to a battery pack to fully discharge it before disposing of the cells. This reduces the energy to almost zero.
There isn't actually that much lithium content in a cell either. Just they're made of flammable materials like plastic and many of them together releases an awful lot of energy quickly.
But then so does the fluids in a car. Brake fluid is especially volatile and burns well once going.
Scrapyard fires are nothing new. Just new, novel hazards that need to be be dealt with that are different from the ones before.
Get away from here with your voice of reason.
This site won't put up with it.
Ben
Any novel ideas you'd like to put forward then Ben?
Copart have said only 700 cars were destroyed in the fire. Wonder how many others have some sort of fire damage, like heat blistered paint, melted rubber, etc?
Hi
